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John Mann

Nancy,

You have written a very spot-on blog in regard to the culture of the American Church. What a lot of issues you raise. Wow. I have copied your piece to study in order to provide a well-thought out response. Thank you.

John Mann

Nancy,
After more thinking on it - Thanks for a provocative essay on church culture. Here are some thoughts on the subject – in terms of the nature of life and ministry you touch on some critical points. An interesting question you raise is, “what would Jesus do?” I wonder if in terms of his relationship with the church today it might be more aptly phrased, “what would be done to Jesus?”
You raise an important issue in the church – giving. Money is the central idolatry of our time. The gift to the organ repair fund is attached with the same strings that we apply to mission. We want good value for our money, i.e. services rendered for the fees we pay. The same strings attach to our work as ministers. We are called to serve Christ, but so many folks see us as the hired help.
Our way of giving is a reflection of our view of God. If we view God as a generous giver, truly, then we will respond in kind. If in God’s realm, ‘there’s more where that came from,’ then our sense of generosity will reflect that. If we believe God is a stingy giver, then so too will we be.
Your blog struck a nerve with me personally. I could take what you wrote and transpose it over so many scenarios from previous experience as a pastor in the American church. In terms of how you end it, ‘Thy kingdom come ...’ what do you think might happen if you preached as sermon that was essentially the text of this blog?

nancy hitt

Thank you so much John! I appreciate your thoughtful response, and I intend to find out how this will preach. The critical episode in the saga occurred on a Sunday as I was leaving for vacation, so I've not yet had the opportunity to pursue it in a sermon. Our stewardship focus comes in the fall, so I expect to land on it with both feet in a sermon that will draw from this. I'm still mulling it over, and I find your remarks about giving and our perception of God to be helpful. I'm working on figuring out how to address it without chastising people for their desire to retaliate against the organ builder...not because guidance is not called for, but because I don't want it to devolve into a me vs. them on this issue kind of thing. By the time our stewardship Sunday arrives, I hope to be able to make the connections between cultural influence and our theology and gift/love in such a way that the connection with this issue is only one among many and not something that feels like finger-pointing. I've considered blogging about "control from the grave"- something folks try to do when they leave bequests to the church that require a policy and procedure manual to administer them. We're so unaware of what a true gift is that we literally dont recognize it when we see it and haven't a clue how to do it. A personal strategy is to never give or loan something until I'm certain I really don't want it. I've been told that doing that means that I'm not really giving a meaningful gift, since if I don't want it, it doesn't "cost" me anything. (Money again!) I find that personally de-investing in something, whether its a sum of money or an object or a service, requires a great deal of attention and energy. Sometimes, I'd say the cost is high. It isn't that I don't care, it's that I've made a decision to take my investment out of whatever the gift is so that it can really belong to the other person. I don't want to do a mini-blog here, but I do have one last question. Is it really different over there in the UK? I've been thinking about retiring to New Mexico, but if they speak my language in the UK....

John Mann

Nancy,

Is it really different in the UK? That's a good question. I probably need to respond to that in blog-length. See tomorrow's edition.

PamBG

I'm an American ministering in the British Midlands. Differently from John, I've been resident here in the UK for twenty years and have only just become a minister. One of my four churches is in a deprived area and I very much recognise John's experience - as well as Nancy's from my years in a middle-class US church! I suspect that there are middle-class congregations in the UK where the same dynamics apply.

I have a zillon thoughts on Nancy's post and can't really sort them out coherently.

What I 'get' from reading your story, Nancy, is a feeling of huge disappointment on the part of the congregation. And the feeling the money could either 'repair' the disappointment or 'deliver justice'.

I don't know if you think that's what's happening, but that's the feeling I get from what you wrote. Both of these things - money as the easer of disappointments and money as the 'currency' of justice - are very embedded in our Western culture, so it's hardly surprising. Certainly it's idolatrous. (And which of us has not engaged in this idolatry?)

nancy hitt

Hey Pam! Thanks for adding your voice to the conversation. I think you're absolutely right about money as our American easer of pain and promoter of justice- and just typing that line brings me pain! I've been trying to envision a life without money and without barter or exchange of any kind. If everyone had free access to all that they needed and could simply help themselves to it as they desired...what would we do with ourselves? I'm afraid we lack the imagination to "go boldly where no one has gone before" to quote the writers of Star Trek....and I think what might be at stake, at least in part, is a fear that we'd truly be responsible for ourselves before each other and God. If our life weren't consumed by "making a living" we'd have no excuse for not creating, for not loving- etc. I know this is a bit far-fetched (Star Trek was Sci-Fi after all) but it helps me to realize how deeply mired in our cultural idolatries we are. I think on some level we realize this, but like any other sort of addiction, we are loathe to give it up! At the risk of glorifying deprivation and reducing the need to respond to one another, I think that not having any excess money may sometimes be an advantage. However, I can't figure out how to keep the advantage and still have the (econmically) oppressed go free. Even if we had surrendered our attachment to all other oppressions, I think money would still bind us. To a certain extent, I think our other divisions (race, religion, sexuality etc.)are just screening tools for how we will alot money. At the very least, I'm working on the concept of doing the MOST one can in every situation instead of using that internalized sense of "what anyone else would do or expect of you" to respond to the challenges of life. It presents some interesting challenges- puts us right back into a biblical context where the folks who heard and followed Jesus were the poor, not the wealthy. Hmmmm....

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